نقاش المستخدم:Elizbeth

שלום Elizbeth ויקיפדיה אני יודע מְעַט ש"ע --محمد مصطفي عوده 19:29, 1 نوفمبر 2006 (UTC)

איזה יופי! אני רואה אתה גם יודע לנקד נכון. כל הכבוד! איך זה לחיות במצרים?

Wow! I see you can also do niqqud (like Harakat) correctly. How is it living in Egypt?

Elizbeth 08:21, 2 نوفمبر 2006 (UTC)

 Article

That was very interesting indeed. But you know wut the vatican is saying "No , Dont leave the Middle East, you should stay there and represent christianity", yea right, why dont you go there , we tell them.

I so want to learn Hebrew, you got any good sites? I started with the alphabet and some of the vowels, but didnt continue.

Regards --Lord Anubis (ناقش) 13:13, 4 نوفمبر 2006 (UTC)

Well, most people don't want to be where you are right now, you're really a hero for staying. I saw here that many Christians left Iraq since 2003, like many Maronites left Lebanon during the civil war there. Where do you live in Iraq, is it a restive area?

Regarding Hebrew, it'll be much easier for you to learn, since you know Arabic - the languages share most of the letters, many of the words, and the word structure; if you were able to learn the four different forms of every Arabic letter, and the 15 grammatical structures (Hebrew is got only about 6 of them) it will not be a problem to learn Hebrew :). Here's a good guide, and this one is made especially for Christians, and it teaches the Hebrew that was used in the Bible (which doesn't differ a lot from modern day Hebrew). I'd be more than happy to help you if you don't like the links I gave you, or if you have any questions

Elizbeth 16:13, 4 نوفمبر 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I left Iraq before the last war, so I did not witness any of the miseries now, and I do not intend to go back to Iraq. I live in the UK. Thanks for the sites, I prefer the first one , but i ll need to browse the second one to see it better, I use this site,it is great (it has pronunciation clips) . I am going very slow (because I am teaching myself, without lessons). Thanks for your offer, i ll come to you for assistance. As you said, lots of Hebrew words are similar to Arabic. Thanks. --Lord Anubis (ناقش) 16:47, 4 نوفمبر 2006 (UTC)

I totally understand you, if I were an Iraqi I wouldn't like to live there right now, let alone if you're a Christian. Hopefully the situation stabilizes there; too many innocent people are dying for nothing.

The site you're using, as you know, teaches Biblical Hebrew, so if you start talking in it people will probably think you're trying to show off, because it's much harder than modern Hebrew (like talking in the US in Shakespearian language). Also, there are some words that were invented in recent times, to describe action and object that didn't have names or didn't exist 2000 years ago (like גְלידָה - Glida, ice-cream or עַגְבַניה - Agvania, tomato). So, if you want to talk/read in Modern Hebrew, you'll need to use other sources too.

Elizbeth 18:26, 4 نوفمبر 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for this comment, I didn't know there was a difference. you know the word "עַגְבַניה " , the first letter of it is "ע" "Ayin" and not "א" "Aleph", is ע the same as ع in arabic (Ayn) and is it pronounced the same ? and as such, עַגְבַניה is transliterated in arabic as : عكفانيا ؟

Thanks --Lord Anubis (ناقش) 20:24, 5 نوفمبر 2006 (UTC)

ע ("Ayin") is indeed like ع, but ayin in Arabic, is pronounced deeper (using the throat more) than ע. Since Arabic hasn't got V (like in Vote), and only the Egyptians pronounce ج as G (like Gold), I would transliterate it as: "عجبثية", but the pronunciation is "agvania" (not "ajbania"). The funny thing about this particular word, was that when Ben-Yehuda (the person who transformed Hebrew from an ancient language to a modern one) thought of a word to tomato, we wanted to use "badora", from Arabic, because the root for agvania is A-G-V, to lust. But the use of the word agvania (which came from the color of the tomato - red, which is associated with love and lust) was quite widespread, so he lost that battle.

Arabic also got غ, that we don't have in Hebrew, so Hebrew speakers pronounce it like "r" (in غـَجر for example) and sometimes like "g" (like in أفغانستان).

Elizbeth 18:33, 7 نوفمبر 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that, I ll keep studying and when I 'm stuck, i ll ask you. --Lord Anubis (ناقش) 18:48, 7 نوفمبر 2006 (UTC)

Sure, I'd love to help in any way :) Elizbeth 13:38, 10 نوفمبر 2006 (UTC)

 hello

hello..... i was just wondering whether you are an arab jew or from a jew descent that used to live in an arab country or you might be some thing else ? could you please write any thig about that because you really show some interest in arabic cultural and especially in Islam .also because i am abit curious about arab jews

 Aziz1005 22:27, 5 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)aziz1005 Aziz1005 22:27, 5 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)  .

Hi Aziz, sorry I didn't answer sooner. I was born in Russia and imigrated to Israel when I was four (1990). I think I might be able to answer some of the question you have, If I don't know the answer myself I can find it in a book that you might not be able to read since it's in Hebrew. I just traveled today on a bus with someone who came from Iraq in 1951 and he talked to me about his life in Hilla before his family fled to Israel. Elizbeth 16:08, 8 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

hello again .Thanks for answering my question actually my family originaly from iraq and i had visited iraq when i was child but i cannot remember nothing and basically im interesting as i told you before in arab and especially iraqi jewish it could be because of the origin of my family im not jew though! but my grandmother told me about iraqi jew and how was the relationship between all iraqis in the 1940's . although i have not been in iraq for long time and also i was born outside iraq and i have lived in 4 different countries but i still highly proud of my iraqiness ,by the way i am few years younger than you. my second question is do iraqi jews in israel feel the same or they donot care about iraq by the way my family knows an iraq jewish family in london but in london you barely can find or actually know jews because they live in few areas and they mostly live togather i dont know why! any way im writing alot dnt i ?. aziz sorry i dnt know wuts wrong with my writing it does not appear properly?

Well, Jews always tend to live together in places outside Israel because usually there's a community of the Jews - with schools, synagogues and stores especially for Jews. It also comes from living as a people without a county for 2000 years, and you had to stay together to feel safe and protected from anti-Semitism.

The Iraqi Jews I know care about what's going on in Iraq, although many of them left during the 50's. I also sense that with Jewish Kurds and Jews from Iran. With others - like Jews from Syria, Egypt and Morocco the feelings, in my view, are not as strong - probably because in the latter countries nothing really bad is going on, so people don't think about it. Some of the people see their former countries in good light (even the Jews that left Iran after the revolution in 79'), but don't wish to go back there. Most of the Arab Jews though, are very happy they left their Arab countries due to the lack of political freedom and the economical situation in those countries. Regarding Iraq specifically I heard from many Iraqi Jews that the government (under Faisal the second) wasn't good for the Jews, but they remember fondly the Shia Muslim that were kind to them.

There is a political party in Israel called Shas, and the people who vote for it are mainly Jews who came from Arab countries or their scions. The party usually gets 10% or less of the parliament sits.

In what countries did you live? Where are you living right now? Elizbeth 19:18, 8 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

Cutting right into the conversation, I know a couple of Iraqi Jewish families here in the UK (1 in London, and 1 in Birmingham), the former left Iraq early 50s, and the latter left Iraq in 1970s when it became truely hopeless, they had to get fake IDs and to be smuggled into Iran and then they were flown to Israel, they didn't like it much then, so they decided to goto the UK and since then they've been here. As for the former, the husband of the family (now deceased) had to purchase genuine French Passports that had a 7-day window on them before being reported to the police, and he and his wife used them to go to Montenegro and then they were heading to the USA, but stopped for a while in the UK and decided to stay. I think both families had to seek assylum, and I imagine the UK granted them refugee status the next day.

In Iraq, The Jews were stripped of their rights, their homes, and their money,, their accounts were frozen and their Nationality was terminated. They were all considered spies of the Zionist nation. Some ppl believe that Israel collaborated with its allies to influence the Arab countries to persecute Jews so they will be forced to go and settle in Israel.

I am a Christian Iraqi, and so I always remember a story my grandmother once told me, she said that she had Jewish neighbours that were forced to leave Iraq, and the Jewish lady told my grandmother (Saturday is succeeded by Sunday), meaning that your turn will come next. Although I didn't leave because I was persecuted as a Christian, but I did have to leave, and I always remember wut this Jewish lady said to my grandmother, because it is so true in politically unstable countries like Iraq and the rest of the Arab countries.

I have actually written an article a few days ago here about Iraqi Jews...

يهود العراق.. transliterated: Yahood Al-Iraq

Sorry for barging in on your convo...

take care, --LORD ANUBIS (ناقش) 20:08, 8 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

Thnx u both that was really interesting . by the way im a muslim 'Shia' ALTHOUGH I DNT LIKE SAYING Shia OR Sunna ...etc and my family originaly from southern iraq and basically my family left Iraq in the 60s and the problem wasnt jew or christian or muslim although the problem was doubled with jew or sabian or even christian. lord you know that most iraqi in the uk are muslim and problems in iraq were mixed political + economical probably other/s . I hope these problems will be sorted out and Iraq become a peaceful country again hopefully this would happpen in my life (this wut mygrandma used to say before she passed away) شايف على هالصدف !! يمكن هالحلم ما يتحقق!!

Aziz1005 21:00, 8 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)AzizAziz1005 21:00, 8 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Lord Anibus for the article, what the Jewish lady said is completly true, and the situation right now in Iraq is very problematic for any minority. I find it funny that the largest community of Jews in the middle east besides Israel is in Iran, I talked to some guy in my age that was born in Tehran and he said that rich Jews in Iran are better there than in Israel...

I'm happy to hear that you don't think there is a significant divide between the Sunnis and Shias, I hope everyone in Iraq would feel that way too and stop the fighting. The problem is that a small group of extremists are forcing everyone to cling to their sect and not trust the others. I think events that took place hundred of years ago should divide people now.

Elizbeth 08:34, 9 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

I agree with u Elizabeth it is a small group of extremists in iraq are fighting every iraqi .about what I said I am pretty sure that alot of iraqis and arabs agree with me .my family is mixed between sunnis and shias and i know alot of similar iraqi families inside and outside iraq but this was not the only reason for my opinion.I hope this habit would never change because of some ignorants. 19:18, 9 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)~ AZIZ19:18, 9 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

I saw some reports in the press that mixed families in Iraq are having a bad time right now. Not everyone is enlightened as you are :( What do you think should be the solution for the fighting? Because you can't continue this way for too long... Elizbeth 20:27, 9 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

Actually the problem in iraq is too complecated and hard to solve unless a miracle happen. on the other hand I think the solution is stop blaming others and start thinking in the other side. This could be the solution . sometimes I think that civil war should happen so people can learn alot of lessons from that but then i think again :iraq had alot of wars and never learned . As far as i know the problem is not with normal people the problem is with politicals and they spread it . Do you agree with me ? Aziz1005 00:34, 10 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)aziz .

Well, relying on a miracle these days is a problem, I hope there are some things politicians inside Iraq can take, to avoid civil war (although I'm not sure it's already a civil war there with so many people dying). I totally agree with you - I don't think people will learn from it (see what's happening right now in Lebanon after 16 years of civil war), although it's hard to say at this point. I think there are a lot of problems in Iraq- besides bad politicians that you have in every country, in Iraq you also have basic bad conditions - a minority Sunni ruling over Shia, Kurds that want their on state, Oil resources in the south and north where Sunnies don't live etc. One of the major problems, in my view is also the interfering of Iraq's neighbors and foreign organizations in its business - so even if people inside Iraq want to avoid fighting - other countries and terrorist organizations won't leave it alone and continue instigating violence. I think comparing to other countries in the Middle East (including Israel - have a look at this) Iraq's got good politicians who are trying to improve the situation . Elizbeth 04:24, 12 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

 conv

I dont agree with you about politicians they are not trying to improve the situation and even if they want they cannot because all the system is wrong .your Ideate about iraq is slightly wrong about oil ,sunni, shias and kurds i think iraqs want to live togather butas a result of these problems that facing iraq now they try to find the solution and thier solution was unfortunately dividing iraq into three or maybe four seperate countries which is in my opinion completly wrong . politicians made or basically suggested that and they try to do it so they can do thier own plans freely like abdulaziz alhakeem , masud barazani and others . Aziz1005 18:28, 14 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you that the politicians in Iraq are sectarian and are making more problems than working out solution. But I think that many of the leaders today in Iraq (like Talabani, Al-Maliki, and even Ayatollah Sistani) are quite moderate and they are good people. The problem is that some extremist politicians (like Moqtada al-Sadr) don't want to compromise on what they feel rightfully belongs to their sect. There are horrible leaders in every county, but the basic conditions in Iraq (the different sects, the un-friendly neighbors, the location of the oil, the problematic history when the minority Sunni ruled) are making it so hard to reach a solution. Elizbeth 20:50, 14 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

Hello elizabeth permit to interfeer a little bit in the discussion i think anyway it will be the last one. Dear elizabeth according to law (international law and or the geneve convention and or to many other laws) the occupier is the one who is reponsible for the security of civilians and a working apparatus of administration. So from a point of view of law the solution is clear it s not the mistake of moderate or extremist politician. may be after a withdrawl of the us you can speak about the responsability of politician in a state with Sovereignty. محرر 21:13, 14 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

shalom. lailatov :-)

Well, I have to say, It's neither the politicians (puppets, and theives) nor the US . It's the extremist terrorist organisations such as AL-QAEDA. Having said that, the US is not helping, in fact, some people think that Saddam had significantly less crimes than what's happening now under US supervision !! --LORD ANUBIS (ناقش) 21:35, 14 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

it wasn t my point of view it was what the international law says.:when you occupy a land you are responsible for the security of the civilian no matter if you are the one who commit the crimes or not. محرر 22:29, 14 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

محرر, I agree with you that the US as an occupying force is responsible for what's going on in Iraq, but you can't blame them for everything, especially in recent times - when the violence isn't towards the foreign troops but is directed at innocent Iraqis. I think right now the Al-Maliki government holds enough power to try and improve the situation (e.g. they control the armed forces) but they aren't able/willing to do it properly (for example- Maliki forced the US forces to stop a seize on "Sadr City" where they were trying to arrest a notorious "death squad" leader) due to political constrains. Obviously the US forces did and continue doing a bad job in guarantying the safety of the Iraqis, but can you blame them for what some extremists from Syria or Saudi-Arabia come to do in Iraq? Elizbeth 07:18, 15 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you about Almalki and Talibani they are trying to find a solution. I personally think that they cannot do that much because as I said before the system is entirely wrong and this system hinders them. What I mean by the system ‘police, army forces ministers…etc’. there are some nonprofessional people in the wrong place. Aziz1005

Definitely - the system in Iraq got infiltrated by criminals and killers, and it's a major problem. You've got idiots and criminals in every government, but in Iraq, in my view, given the structural problems that I mentioned before, it stands out much more. I think right now, Iraq is the worst place to live in the entire region (maybe besides the calm areas in the north of the country). But living under non-liberal regimes in places like Saudi-Arabia seems pretty bad too. Most of the successful Muslim or Arab people I've heard of, are living in the West, too bad for the homelands :( Elizbeth 17:39, 16 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

It sounds a bit silly but i would live in safe rich Saudia Arabia with lack of freedom rather than living in unstable and dangerous country like Iraq. In my opinion Saudia arabia is not as bad as you think. the changes in saudia arabia are quite slow but saudia still fine though. actually no one can force you not to say something. i have lived in syria for few years. and despite the lack of freedome ,ppl still can say almost every thing they want to. I think there is a huge difference between Syria now and Syria in the past 10 or 15 years.

sorry for late responding. Aziz1005 03:26, 22 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

I totally agree with you that it's better to live in a stable and non-free country that in a dangerous and free place like Iraq today. Regarding Saudi Arabia, most of the people there aren't rich, and only a few are very rich from the oil proceeds. It sounds like you have a lot of experience, and Syria today is better than it was some years ago under Hafez Al-Assad. I think the regime is weaker there right now, due to the vast corruption (and maybe also because most of the citizens are Sunni, but the regime is Allawi, what do you think?). I lived in the Soviet Union (USSR) under the communist regime when I was young, and people did say almost anything that they wanted but only to people they trusted. My father did seven years in prison and two years of hard labor in Siberia, and my mother did three years in prison for opposing the Soviet regime, so it became clear to them that you have to be careful about whom you speak to :). Elizbeth 19:44, 23 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)

According to my experience, people in Syria are not sectarian. Maybe because Syria is one of the most multicultural/religions country in the Middle East .people there feel like normal people, they just want to live, they need better conditions,and honestly they more or less like their president (or at least they don’t hate him) despite all the negative points which is in the regime. The regime is not totally Allawi there are a lot of Sunnis and Christians in the government. I studied in a school where there were a lot of students from different religions, I had Druze,Catholic,Allawis, Shias and Sunnis in my class. And no one was talking about religions more or less People in Syria now can criticize the government but not the president.Aziz1005 23:45, 26 ديسمبر 2006 (UTC)